Comments on: Vos vs Tú: A Los Pedos

By: Anquises

Anquises — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:17:02 +0000

1. El voseo (el cambio en la conjugación de la segunda persona del presente y el imperativo de los verbos):
tú miras / vos mirás
mira /mirá,
no aparece solo en los países rioplatenses sino en casi todos los países latinoamericanos -con la excepción del Perú y los hispanoparlantes del Caribe. En la Argentina y Paraguay la sustitución es completa, en los demás países es parcial o solo se halla en algunas regiones.
También hay un cambio en la conjugación de la segunda persona del plural:
Vosotros miráis / Ustedes miran
Mirad / Miren

Aquellos que han aprendido el español que se habla en Perú, en casi todo México o en España, no deben preocuparse por estas variantes: serán perfectamente entendidos en cualquier país de idioma español, de modo que, en principio, no tienen por qué cambiar nada. Los españoles que vienen a la Argentina o los argentinos que van a España nunca lo hacen. En cuanto a las expresiones vulgares, lo mejor es no utilizarlas hasta que uno tenga dominio completo del lenguaje (si alguna vez necesita decir algo subido de tono, hágalo en su propio idioma, no hay nada más tranquilizador que los juramentos en lengua materna
2. La lengua oficial de la Argentina es el castellano o español. En la Argentina se sigue utilizando la primera palabra en los libros de texto de las escuelas, aunque es un poco anticuada. Las primeras 14 ediciones del diccionario de la Real Academia Española (de la que ahora forman parte 22 academias de países hispanoparlantes) llevaban el título “Diccionario de la lengua Castellana”, pero desde 1925 el diccionario se llama “Diccionario de la lengua Española”. Tal vez sería apropiado imitar a los angloparlantes y llamar “española” (spanish) a nuestra lengua.

My two 5 pesos bills (sorry, but I need my cents for the ‘colectivo’)

By: Enrolling at University of Buenos Aires « Still Life in Buenos Aires

Enrolling at University of Buenos Aires « Still Life in Buenos Aires — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 03:52:41 +0000

[...] For the test, it’s important to understand the use of “vos” rather than “tu,” and “sos” instead of “eres.” Take a primer on Argentinean spanish here. [...]

By: santelmoloft

santelmoloft — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:09:16 +0000

I’m realizing I wasn’t very clear in my post about why I used the word castellano. I said “castellano” and not “Castilian” because Argentines say they speak “castellano” not “español.” I was trying to be a little humorous by saying Argentines don’t speak Spanish, they speak Castellano. And I linked to the wikipedia page because it’s a good explanation of just what Rioplatense Spanish is. Did you read that wikipedia page? It was the most clearly written and useful description online-not too academic or technical for those who just want an overview. Blogs, wikis, etc. aren’t authoritative sources, so people taking their information from them should always double-check the facts. But there are times when wikipedia gets it very right.

The Englishes spoken in the UK, Australia, and the US are different dialects of the same language. The same is true for Rioplatense Spanish (called castellano by those who speak it). It’s a dialect of Spanish because not only are there differences in pronunciation, there are differences in vocabulary and grammar. I didn’t mean to imply that Argentines have invented a new language, although I have talked to a lot of tourists whose Spanish skills come from the dialect of Spanish spoken in the States that think it’s a totally new language when they first arrive. I personally love the fact that languages are so alive and malleable. How dull life would be if we were all alike.

Hope you had a good weekend!

By: Filologo

Filologo — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:49:12 +0000

Hey, nice blog.
“Castellano is not only spoken in Argentina, but all “spanish/castellano” speaking countries. Labelling the language “spanish” was like a marketing ploy according to my basque born “spanish” teacher, because each region has their own dialect, and most people would not know where the language castellano was spoken, because you know most people don´t know how to read maps or such as find NY city on it, and therefore we should, such as, send aid to Africa, so they could learn how to read maps, such as…and it would stop the spread of AIDS and bring world peace”
This the truth. Castillian o castellano is actually what in english is named “spanish language”.
And, please, dont take wikipedia so seriously.
A dialect isnt about a word or two, if that were the case, only uk would speak english language, and usa dont, because there is the word tube in uk and subway in usa, lorrie and truck, etc.. Or in australia people wouldnt speak english due to their weird australian pronunciation.
But if you think about spaniard dialects, you have el gallego, el leonéss,bable,andaluz,riojano,mozarabe,montañes o cantabro y del aragonés.
We havent invented a new language (ye):P.
Buen finde!!!

By: miss tango

miss tango — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:06:23 +0000

Some people are just blessed with a whole lot of ignorance. I have a few friends like that, they are such a happy lot.

By: santelmoloft

santelmoloft — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:15:28 +0000

Hey Miss Tango… that’s interesting about your Basque-born teacher. I remember that from high school. We were taught that there were four Spanishes spoken in Spain. Castilian was the one we were being taught. But it wasn’t Castellano in the sense of the Rioplatense dialect. Actually, I think we were taught Mexican by our Catholic brother.

Anyway, the Spanish spoken outside of Spain is more similar to Castilian than say Catalan. It would be more accurate if Argentines said they spoke Rioplatense and all Spanish-speakers said they spoke Castellano.

For an analogy, it’s as if we said we didn’t speak English but instead called it Londonian or some other area in England. Then we could say that really everyone speaks Londonian. Even people in Australia speak Londonian. I guess we could say the differences between Rioplatense and Castilian Spanish are somewhat similar to the differences between English dialects, say Australian English vs. North American English. I bet for English learners, they seem like two very different languages, just like Castellano and Spanish sometimes do.

As far as map reading goes… I hear ya sister. I once lived in Panama and a friend was coming to visit who thought Panama was in the U.S. She might have been thinking of Panama City, Florida. Anyway, she didn’t have a passport and didn’t get one before coming. She got on the plane somehow without a passport and the Panamanian authorities let her in the country with her driver’s license. I guess telling her we actually went to war with Panama was pretty pointless. Oh brother…

By: miss tango

miss tango — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:21:04 +0000

Castellano is not only spoken in Argentina, but all “spanish/castellano” speaking countries. Labelling the language “spanish” was like a marketing ploy according to my basque born “spanish” teacher, because each region has their own dialect, and most people would not know where the language castellano was spoken, because you know most people don´t know how to read maps or such as find NY city on it, and therefore we should, such as, send aid to Africa, so they could learn how to read maps, such as…and it would stop the spread of AIDS and bring world peace

By: santelmoloft

santelmoloft — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:47:35 +0000

Age does have its advantages! Thanks for adding those examples… the idea of solidarity in W. Africa with the use of one pronoun for all levels of society really appeals to me. I’ve never liked the classicism that goes with the formal/informal you’s.

It’s strange to me that parents and children would be so formal with one another in Colombia. Makes you wonder what their relationships are like? In Italy the formal pronoun was used with grandparents. I always wondered how little kids figured it out. How did they know with whom to use the formal or informal? I guess they were instructed by their parents, but I was having such a hard time with it and the kids weren’t.

I guess in English, since thou is gone, we use other terms: like calling a man you don’t know “sir” vs “dude.” Or the fact that my mom calls her mom “Mother.” “Yes, Mother.” Yuck, it’s so stuffy and distant.

By: Jackson Bliss

Jackson Bliss — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 05:14:10 +0000

You know, it’s odd because the older I get the more fascinating I find sociolinguistics. I mean, even in English it’s fascinating to consider how you=usted and thou=tú and how we’ve lost the hierarchy that once existed in our language to distinguish between class, profession, intimacy. In the village I was teaching in in West Africa, everyone used the French “tu” instead of “vous,” even though the latter is a sign of respect. And yet I find that “tu” brought people together, it was used with the assumption of community, and “vous” was used both for distinction, foreigness and to create distance. And yet, in Colombia, parents address even their kids with “usted.” Fascinating shit.

By: santelmoloft

santelmoloft — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 03:59:21 +0000

Tina, thanks for adding us to your blogroll!

Still Life…. talk about bring us back to the practical side of all of this. As long as you’re saying “a pedo” and not doing it, I’ll walk with you again. Had a great time last night at Due Ladroni!